On The Floor: Intermittent Fasting and Active Women with Danielle Pellicano

Transcript

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Hi everyone, welcome back to Exploring Health Macro to Micro.

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I'm your host, parker Condit, and if you're watching the video, you can tell that we're back for another live episode with Danielle Pelicano.

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So this is going to be another on the floor, as we've been in Colorado for the past few days.

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So again, I would suggest you watch some videos so you can see our beautiful background here in Colorado and as I warned before we started recording.

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I'm talking myself out of breath because we're at elevation, so the answers might be a bit shorter today.

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But the basis of this episode.

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Again, if you're not familiar with the on the floor format, danielle has recorded questions from people on the gym floor.

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We're going to answer them for you and we kind of theme these today mostly around intermittent fasting.

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So the first question I'm not sure who this is from, but it's a good primer for us to start with.

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Okay, my question is what do you think about intermittent fasting?

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So you had an interesting oh, out of the gate.

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Yeah, right off the bat.

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That's fine.

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What are your first thoughts on intermittent fasting?

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Then I'll kind of go into mine.

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Intermittent fasting.

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Any of the science that has been shown currently has been studies done on obese men.

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Okay.

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So now most of my clientele that even brings up intermittent fasting are women.

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So out of the gate, that topic changes in my opinion.

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Yep, I have always believed in time restricting eating.

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I think that's good for your gut microbiome.

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I think there are better sleep habits that come with time management of the timing of when you eat.

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Intermittent fasting as a whole I don't think is great for women okay, that's a good place to start.

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Um, I have a lot of thoughts on intermittent fasting.

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I think the reason this is worth doing an entire episode on was because there is so much talk around it and I think a lot of the what intermittent fasting is, which is basically just some feeding window versus some non-feeding window or some fasted window.

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Generally, when people are speaking about intermittent fasting, they're talking about a 16-8 protocol, which is 16 hours of fasting and an eight-hour feeding window.

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Intermittent fasting is not always that it can be more restricted.

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You could do a 20-hour fasted window with a four-hour feeding window.

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It can be more restricted.

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You could do a 20-hour fasted window with a four-hour feeding window.

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You could even do one day of fasting with one day of eating.

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So there's a lot of different ways you can cut this.

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And when a lot of people are talking about intermittent fasting, the distinction between the protocol of what a study said is not always directly translate to what people think, because most people think when you say intermittent fasting, they think 16-8.

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That's generally what people are going to be thinking, and then they'll cite research of oh, because I get this benefit, and then it's a totally different protocol which isn't even close Correct.

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So anyway, my thoughts on intermittent fasting and I wanted to wait until I wasn't waiting for more research to come out, but we're recording this.

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In early July, and I think it was in April or March of this year, a study came out from Johns Hopkins which the basic conclusions of that were stating that the benefits that have generally been attributed to intermittent fasting are actually better attributed to caloric restriction.

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So they did a time restricted group and then a just calorically restricted group, but they matched calories.

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So basically the benefits that you were getting from intermittent fasting so they thought, was actually more benefit just from the caloric restriction to be very beneficial for your health.

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But you obviously can't do it forever because if you're always calorically restricting you'll just lose weight and wither away to some point.

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So I wanted to wait to record this to kind of wrap my head around that study a little bit more.

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Right.

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Because a lot of people are saying, oh, it's better for weight loss or it's better for metabolism and all these things.

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Do you not agree that most people turn to intermittent fasting for weight management?

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I do not agree that most people turn to intermittent fasting for weight management.

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Yeah, so I guess the better way to discuss that is understanding that intermittent fasting can be a tool for that, where a lot of people end up eating less because there is a more.

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You're lopping off one meal, generally Right breakfast, and just by doing that, even if you know, okay, I should be taking in 1800 calories a day, or 25, whatever your number is.

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If you're lopping off one meal and you have less time to eat, it's going to be a little bit easier for some people to be calorically restricted, correct, and then, as you're calorically restricted, that's where you're getting the benefit for some people.

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I'm always going to be the.

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I'm always going to come from the perspective on this podcast from women.

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Yep.

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Great, it's smart, it just makes sense.

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I also have to keep in mind that most all of my clientele are active women.

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So when I get questions like this, I immediately am not saying intermittent fasting doesn't serve a purpose when it's necessary, but for that to be something that you start to become, becomes a habit in your way, and you also are someone who exercises daily.

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It is detrimental for women because most of the time you are going to your fuel source If you do fasted cardio, for example, is going to come from lean muscle mass.

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If you're a female and I am now in a point in my 40s where I'm aging with my clients If you are in your late 30s and on and you're intermittent fasting but you are a regular gym going workout person, you are playing with fire.

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You are choosing to tap into lean muscle mass to fuel your workouts instead of appropriately fueling them prior to working out.

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So I'm going to say I do not like intermittent fasting.

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I don't think it's necessary.

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I'd rather always promote very good eating habits and I don't think we're doing that enough, especially because you and I typically are bringing our podcast back to protein intake for women.

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I think the conversation should be flipped on its head, where the last thing I want to see women doing is choosing to close down their feeding windows and eating less.

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In my opinion, we need to be promoting more carbs and protein.

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Yep, so you touched on another point.

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I'm trying to remember the second question, whether or not it's going to be more relevant there or here, but which is on like disordered eating, where there's not enough conversation around the fact that I treat intermittent fasting.

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So I'll speak more for myself and, I guess, the boys.

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Intermittent fasting is a tool, in the same way that a screwdriver is a tool and a hammer is a tool.

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Right, if you have a nail and you have a screwdriver, that's a shitty tool.

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So it's understanding yourself and trying to be a little bit more interoceptive and understanding like is this a model that works well for me, where some people just naturally they don't really like eating breakfast and they don't like having to put calories in their body early in the day and they feel fine?

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And if that's who you are, then intermittent fasting is going to be something that just probably resonates with you and is going to be a good solution.

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It's going to be a better tool for you.

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Here's why it's so nice to be a man.

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You guys, you are going to go through stored glucose in a fasted state first.

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That would be a dream come true for women.

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It is completely not that way.

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For women, we tap into blood sugar, free fatty acids and amino acids first, which are all things you want.

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So when you are now going into fasted cardio and why I'm saying it, I have to re-impact from an exercise standpoint.

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Is the people asking us these questions are gym goers Right?

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They're working out every day.

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So I'm going to approach the conversation and the answer that way.

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You are going to end up as a female coming in in a fasted state.

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You are going to burn most of your metabolically active tissue, which is your lean muscle mass, to fuel the activity, and it's going against all of what we are doing as trainers.

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We're trying to get them stronger.

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We're trying to keep that muscle mass as you age, because that's just starting to tick off already.

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So for me, I'm going to stay firm on the.

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I don't like intermittent fasting for women and for your conversation, for men is completely different because you completely benefit from it.

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A lot of people probably heard of, when you're doing cardio, the fat burning zone, yes, which is the highest rate of fat oxidation.

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But it's not saying like all you're burning is fat, because you're never just burning fat, it's always a combination, but it's your highest rate of burning fat.

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A lot of people when you hear that, instinctively they think, oh, I'm burning body fat.

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So if you go in the gym and you go on a treadmill somewhere on there, on there it's gonna say, oh, here's your fat burning zone.

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Most people think they're burning body fat.

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You're burning free fatty acids.

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You need to be working for like an hour plus to get to stored body fat.

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So that is always poorly communicated and always people are like but I'm doing fat burning zone, it's like it's free fatty acids, it's what you had for breakfast.

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Yeah, period, okay, anything else on this topic?

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no, I like, I like that, I like that.

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I'm firm on the no for women yeah, no, I think it's great.

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Yeah, um, oh, I think, touching on um, so even, yeah, it's like we're pretty much on the same page of like intermittent fasting is overhyped.

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But let's answer it this way too time restricted eating there.

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There are huge benefits to it.

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I've always said this in our profession.

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We almost do it accidentally because we wake up so early and we go to bed so early, so we're almost put into a time management eating of a 12 hour window, not intentionally.

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I am so mindful of starting my metabolism when I can, so I'm not forcing necessarily breakfast down my throat at six in the morning, but two hard boiled eggs, something that kickstarts it.

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That's protein driven.

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It's an important habit.

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It matters if you are, because our conversation about protein intake for women, if you are even doing a fasted state, you are trying to get the protein intake in a six hour window.

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It's never going to happen.

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So that in itself makes me not not like it, right it's.

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It requires mindful eating is really how I talk about it.

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Yeah.

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So then let's just pretend intermittent fasting did have all these benefits.

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There's still the risk of disordered eating, which is a much higher risk amongst women but, not uncommon amongst men.

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So, like you need as a trainer or you as a client, like there needs to be a lot of boxes checked for me to say, oh, you're a great candidate for intermittent fasting, correct?

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Okay, let's move on.

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Okay, I feel like intermittent fasting is really talked about, but I feel like eating before a workout makes me work out better.

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What do you recommend eating before a workout, or do you recommend not eating before a workout?

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Okay, so this question is coming from Kennedy.

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She's a college athlete and she is 21.

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Okay, and she's already talking about intermittent fasting.

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Great.

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But she brought it back around timing of foods prior to exercise simple carbs.

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Carbs is a killer.

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Women hate hearing carbs.

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Women should be eating so many more carbs and protein, but it's the timing of it that is incredibly important.

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I am curious, before I answer, what your thoughts are on timing of foods prior to exercise.

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I'm less precise about it.

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I just want somebody to feel good in the workout.

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So, again, because you have a beautiful mind and I love this, can you explain what a simple carb is versus a complex and why a simple carb is what would fuel a workout but is not something you would want to be eating as your carb choice throughout the day?

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Why don't you go on that?

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I'm still trying to think of, like, how I'm going to organize the rest of my answer.

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Sorry, I cut you off, it's okay.

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No, go, finish your thought.

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Okay, because, like I work with people that are not as precise.

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Like you work with endurance athletes where it's like fuel timing, nutrition, that athletes where it's like fuel timing and nutrition, that's all really part of your.

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I'm more gen pop where, like, the timing of that matters a lot less.

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So I'm much more about teaching people like to feel what's happening within themselves.

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So, again, like it goes back to what kind of what I said in the first answer, where it's like, if you're a person who naturally doesn't like eating in the morning, I'm not going to force them getting they're not elite athletes to work with.

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I'm not going to force them to eat if they don't normally feel good eating in the morning, because then they're probably going to have a worse workout.

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So it's more from my side of things of just teaching people to feel more confident and listening to their bodies of what they want and like exercise is such a great way to teach people to learn about themselves and their body and connect that with their mind.

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So that's more where I take things.

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Agreed, I think from Kennedy's perspective.

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Everyone's trying to have such a caloric deficit that they think it's going to be to their benefit to come up, to come into a HIIT workout, thinking they're going to always tap into zone four, completely under fueled.

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And once again, if you don't fuel the exercise that you're about to do, your body is going to tap into lean muscle mass.

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To fuel it, you need to give it simple carbs.

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The reason for simple carbs simple carbs is a very high glycemic sugar.

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It's not what you would want to ever feed on all day.

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So it's not your fruits, vegetables, whole grains.

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Simple is going to be a bowl of cereal.

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Sounds awful, but it's going to give you this spike in glucose.

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It's going to fuel your workout.

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It's going to give you energy so that your body's not tapping into lean muscle mass, which is always the goal.

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And then, post-workout, you want a again a simple carb with bookends with protein.

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So, for example, it's going to sound so weird.

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I might have me personally half a Snickers, but then I'll have Greek yogurt and people like that's an interesting combo but it's bulletproof.

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So I get my simple carb replenishment but I'm also getting and starting on the recovery with the protein.

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How did you find that combination, dr Stacey Sims?

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I love her.

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I don't feel bad about it, it's a fact.

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Okay, so again for anyone, anyone female in the endurance world generally.

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Dr Stacey Sims book is a good reference.

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We'll pop it up Telling women these are the things that you need to do if you want to age better Not gracefully per se, but better.

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And it's always coming from an endurance standpoint or athletic background.

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Because it's true and you are more or less just trying to maintain a lot of your body comp starting in your 40s and going into your 50s.

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It gets much harder.

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So you are only going to help in podcasts like this, giving that type of information and message.

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Yep.

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I don't have much more to add on that Cause we like.

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Well, starting with, starting with the broad.

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What are your general thoughts about intermittent fasting?

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I figured we're going to touch on a lot of it.

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Yeah, okay, last question.

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So my question is there is always such an emphasis on post-workout?

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protein.

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Is there anything we need to know about what eating before the workout?

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I'm going to simplify this too.

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I don't understand why you would go into a workout not wanting to have energy and I think a lot of people are going into workouts not fueling clearly out of the fear of the calorie deficit, because most people are working out.

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This is general pop.

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I'm being very honest.

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Yep, they want to lose weight, they want to get leaner.

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That's their mindset.

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One thousand percent they.

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I don't know how you can even have the energy to finish the workout if you don't come in with some calories.

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Yep Period.

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Yeah.

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So I think we kind of touched on those concepts in the first two responses of we're.

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Again, I'll give.

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I'll give, like the, the exception where some people just feel better.

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Right.

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Fine If that's you, great.

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But just because intermittent is fasting is popular right now and a lot of people are talking about it, I think a lot of people are gravitating to it, probably inappropriately, so we've kind of landed on the same part of fuel.

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Yourself beforehand, you already went over post-fueling with the types of carbs and booking on the protein.

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But you mentioned weight loss.

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Yeah, yeah what are your thoughts on?

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So like?

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Exercise is always so closely tied to weight loss.

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That's not where I would start.

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People Like if we're going to talk about weight loss, it's walking.

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You, you literally have been the reason I have paid attention to step count for over the last year and a half two years Walking crushes.

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It's the daily.

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What do we call it?

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Daily pass what do we call that word?

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I asked you this daily physical activity.

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That one is a game changer of weight management.

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Yeah, um, so just to give like, I'll give a study first and then we can talk about it.

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But there was a study that looked at people who had lost weight at least 10 kilograms so 22 pounds, so a a significant amount of weight and they kept it off for at least 10 years.

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So 22 pounds, so a significant amount of weight, and they kept it off for at least 10 years.

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So they looked at that group and then a group that didn't lose weight and then a group that lost weight but put it back on.

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So there was like three arms to the study and the group that kept it off.

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The main difference for them was that they walked a lot.

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They averaged, I think, 13,000 steps a day.

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So the people that lost weight moved a lot and then they just never stopped moving their body.

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So to underestimate walking is easy, because it seems very passive and it seems like, oh, it's something I do every day, it's kind of like breathing Right.

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But the the importance of walking can't be understated and I think it's because if you build walking as a daily practice, then you always have that.

00:17:44.955 --> 00:17:52.199
If life gets busy or after your season and you take some time off and something happens, you get an injury, whatever it might be.

00:17:52.199 --> 00:18:01.125
If you're only relying on exercise, then your weight loss tool is gone if you drop that.

00:18:01.125 --> 00:18:07.409
But if you always have that underlying movement practice of walking a lot every day and just being fidgety and active with your body, then you have that to fall back on.

00:18:07.931 --> 00:18:10.803
So, that's why I always start people on a foundation of walking.

00:18:11.064 --> 00:18:11.625
Let me ask you something.

00:18:11.625 --> 00:18:12.590
What's that number to you?

00:18:12.590 --> 00:18:22.765
If someone, if that is a new concept to them, because this was asked by a client of mine last week they're like what should my step count be in between workouts?

00:18:22.765 --> 00:18:27.433
So I might build out a four-day very strict running program?

00:18:27.433 --> 00:18:30.251
Yep, they're like, well, what am I doing the other three days?

00:18:30.251 --> 00:18:31.477
What should my step count be?

00:18:31.477 --> 00:18:33.505
What are they at in what way?

00:18:33.505 --> 00:18:35.029
What's their average step count?

00:18:35.029 --> 00:18:40.163
I didn't even ask that, okay, because I I'm just curious like what do you think that number is?

00:18:40.483 --> 00:18:55.750
it depends on the person so I'll give already active, like already fit I'd still want to see the number right because like you so to give an example you can work out three days a week and still be sedentary oh, for sure right.

00:18:55.750 --> 00:19:02.991
So if if you're working out three days a week and you're walking 4 000 steps a day, I would call that person sedentary okay, so I'm gonna use.

00:19:03.112 --> 00:19:04.643
No, I'm gonna use chris, he'll appreciate this.

00:19:04.762 --> 00:19:06.707
I'll give you numbers, but yeah, no, he's a chef.

00:19:07.228 --> 00:19:11.605
He's on his feet Okay Expediting, so not necessarily maybe saying hi to a few tables.

00:19:11.605 --> 00:19:13.030
I am.

00:19:13.030 --> 00:19:15.367
He is on a weight loss program with me.

00:19:15.548 --> 00:19:15.769
Okay.

00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.961
His favorite sport is cycling.

00:19:17.961 --> 00:19:21.665
Cool, well, what's a step count?

00:19:21.665 --> 00:19:25.750
Because I got him on a Garmin watch and he sees that he can now see it, which is fantastic.

00:19:25.750 --> 00:19:27.432
It's like closing a ring with the Apple Watch.

00:19:27.432 --> 00:19:29.454
What would you set his step count at?

00:19:29.454 --> 00:19:33.865
Weight loss is his goal, correct?

00:19:33.904 --> 00:19:34.185
12?

00:19:34.185 --> 00:19:38.773
Yeah, so like 12, understand it, but like I'm kind of just pulling that out of nowhere.

00:19:38.773 --> 00:19:46.489
If I work with people that are generally going to be lower, like if somebody is walking 5,000 steps a day, I'm never jumping them to 12.

00:19:46.489 --> 00:19:48.973
Okay, I'm giving them wins early.

00:19:48.973 --> 00:19:52.682
And I would say 2,000 steps is a mile Roughly.

00:19:52.682 --> 00:19:54.346
Yeah, you can walk about a hundred steps a minute.

00:19:54.346 --> 00:19:55.248
So that's how I think of it.

00:19:55.248 --> 00:19:55.888
I adore you.

00:19:56.470 --> 00:19:57.151
Round it up for us.

00:19:57.151 --> 00:19:58.252
I think 2,000 is a mile.

00:19:58.252 --> 00:20:02.888
Yeah, I think that's.

00:20:02.888 --> 00:20:04.010
I like that number.

00:20:04.251 --> 00:20:04.732
Yeah, All right.

00:20:05.510 --> 00:20:08.247
So so here it is I mean you're asking for six miles a day from that person.

00:20:08.528 --> 00:20:09.420
Yeah, that's legit that.

00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:10.605
that is, that's changed that.

00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:12.708
Now everyone's like oh, in their car driving right now.

00:20:12.708 --> 00:20:20.909
I'm like okay, so if you walk three minutes a mile, which is an average walking mats here, right?

00:20:21.049 --> 00:20:27.563
I asked one of my clients who is very sedentary in his job as of late as of the last six months.

00:20:27.563 --> 00:20:29.069
It's been very stressful for him.

00:20:29.069 --> 00:20:31.619
I go on average like what is your step count right now?

00:20:31.619 --> 00:20:42.027
He's like I'm lucky if I get 5 000 sucks yeah, so five is average, I guess but there's no, there's only weight gain happening is why I say that it's demoralizing a little bit.

00:20:42.027 --> 00:20:43.209
It's very upsetting.

00:20:43.209 --> 00:20:46.034
5 000 is just scraping the surface.

00:20:46.173 --> 00:20:53.803
It feels like it's been proven generally, if someone's around five, they're probably time constricted or time restrained, correct?

00:20:53.803 --> 00:20:57.094
I I try to get them to win at a 10 bump.

00:20:57.094 --> 00:21:04.541
So if they're at five I'm bumping them to 5500 good to know right, I'm like be successful at this thing where it's like you can have.

00:21:04.541 --> 00:21:07.355
You can have setbacks in your workouts a little bit.

00:21:07.355 --> 00:21:11.569
They're less frequent, but it's like I want this person winning day after day after day after day.

00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:13.185
And like really stacking that habit.

00:21:13.185 --> 00:21:17.170
There's a variety of reasons for weight gain beyond just being sedentary.

00:21:17.170 --> 00:21:19.709
That is probably dedicated for its own podcast.

00:21:19.709 --> 00:21:24.326
But there's a lot of research around 7,000 steps a day.

00:21:24.326 --> 00:21:28.334
I think that's a better minimum health threshold than 10,000.

00:21:28.334 --> 00:21:39.027
By the way, 10,000 steps a day was a made up number from a Japanese pedometer company in the 1960s, so it was a marketing number.

00:21:39.027 --> 00:21:39.648
It's a great.

00:21:39.648 --> 00:21:51.836
It's a great number because it's high, but it's probably higher than the threshold for like health benefits, in that 7, steps a day has some research around or 7500 steps a day for women and lower incidence of depression.

00:21:51.836 --> 00:21:53.045
So that's a good threshold.

00:21:53.045 --> 00:21:59.113
Yes, I think 8000 steps a day is a minimum for preventing weight gain.

00:21:59.113 --> 00:22:04.412
So if somebody just wants to maintain, I put them around eight and then weight loss had put closer to 12 or 13.

00:22:04.412 --> 00:22:07.367
So those are just some numbers that people can reference.

00:22:08.443 --> 00:22:17.648
I completely agree, it's also mindfulness I love that word actually because to actually hit that goal, to close that ring, you come home from your day, your dog staring at you.

00:22:17.648 --> 00:22:20.028
You're like 2,500 steps.

00:22:20.028 --> 00:22:21.724
Shy, we're going on a lap.

00:22:21.986 --> 00:22:22.126
Yep.

00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:23.484
I'm going to the grocery store.

00:22:23.484 --> 00:22:24.961
I step shy.

00:22:24.961 --> 00:22:27.830
We're going on a lap yep I'm going to the grocery store, I'm going to park at the very far end versus trying to find the closest spot.

00:22:27.830 --> 00:22:31.584
Those little things throughout your entire day, those habits totally, totally close the ring.

00:22:31.584 --> 00:22:37.520
Yep, yesterday, alex, her step count was 87 500 for that everest challenge.

00:22:37.760 --> 00:22:38.803
So while we close this out.

00:22:38.803 --> 00:22:40.805
Why don't you just describe so?

00:22:40.945 --> 00:22:49.057
yesterday one of my clients did the everest challenge, which is the actual ascent of of everest, which is 27 000.

00:22:49.057 --> 00:22:50.578
I am going to round it to 800.

00:22:50.578 --> 00:22:52.321
I could be wrong, I think I'm close.

00:22:52.321 --> 00:22:56.128
So that required nine ascents on aspen mountain.

00:22:56.128 --> 00:22:59.740
At the last lap last night it was 10 30.

00:22:59.740 --> 00:23:02.285
We're just doing all the metrics.

00:23:02.285 --> 00:23:03.747
That she goes, coach D.

00:23:03.747 --> 00:23:07.512
Today I got 87,500 steps.

00:23:07.512 --> 00:23:12.864
Yep, that's, I mean, that's just so cool yeah that was there you go.

00:23:13.405 --> 00:23:16.567
So yeah, step count, Anything else to close out on this.

00:23:17.339 --> 00:23:20.746
No, I love that we keep hammering the same message in a good way.

00:23:20.746 --> 00:23:23.007
We're very consistent in what we think, yep.

00:23:23.228 --> 00:23:25.602
Yeah, any other questions from back there?

00:23:25.602 --> 00:23:28.746
We're recording this and my aunt and uncle and Malavika are out there.

00:23:28.746 --> 00:23:32.049
Any questions to add on to this episode?

00:23:32.049 --> 00:23:38.281
Nope, thank you All right, everyone.

00:23:38.281 --> 00:23:40.685
Thanks for tuning in for another episode of On the Floor.

00:23:40.685 --> 00:23:47.067
I hope you were able to watch this one because I wanted to record here because, as you can see, it's beautiful here in Basalt, colorado.

00:23:47.067 --> 00:23:50.809
Jim and Kim, thanks for letting us record here of this beautiful location.

00:23:50.809 --> 00:23:52.017
Love it, danielle.

00:23:52.037 --> 00:23:53.883
Thanks for letting us do it Parker, it's always a pleasure.

00:23:54.124 --> 00:23:55.468
Great, All right, thanks everyone.

00:23:55.468 --> 00:23:57.132
Hey everyone.

00:23:57.132 --> 00:23:58.244
That's all for today's show.

00:23:58.244 --> 00:24:09.295
I want and by and watching, especially if you've made it all the way to this point If you'd like to be notified when new episodes are going to be released, feel free to subscribe, and make sure you hit the bell button as well.

00:24:09.295 --> 00:24:12.877
To learn more about today's guest, feel free to look in the description.

00:24:12.877 --> 00:24:17.255
You can also visit the podcast website, which is exploringhealthpodcastcom.

00:24:17.255 --> 00:24:20.284
That website will also be linked in the description.

00:24:20.284 --> 00:24:25.642
As always, likes, shares, comments are a huge help to me and to this channel and to the show.

00:24:25.642 --> 00:24:27.867
So any of that you can do I would really appreciate.

00:24:27.867 --> 00:24:30.085
And again, thank you so much for watching.

00:24:30.085 --> 00:24:31.028
I'll see you next time.

On The Floor: Intermittent Fasting and Active Women with Danielle Pellicano

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