Men's Emotional Health, Coaching, and Societal Growth with Marc Paisant

Hi everyone, welcome to Exploring Health Macro to Micro. I'm your host, Parker Condit. In the show, I interview health and wellness experts around topics like sleep, exercise, nutrition, stress management, mental health and much more. So by the end of each episode, you'll have concrete, tangible advice that you can start implementing today to start living a healthier life, either for yourself or for your loved ones. And that's the microside of the show. The macro side of the show is discussing and having conversations around larger systemic issues that can contribute to health outcomes. An example of that is examining how the term mental health awareness has been around for over 100 years and yet we're still dealing with mental health stigma in today's society. My guest today is Marc Paisant. Marc is a certified personal trainer and the host of the relatively normal podcast and the 6am Run Club podcast. Beyond that,Marc uses his platform and influence to show people that they're never alone, to be a mental health advocate and what no one else is available to be the person that people can reach out to if they need to be heard. We ended up discussing our early experiences in therapy and how we both kind of missed the point, but are glad we started when we did, why so many men still struggle with mental health today, using physical health as a way to influence mental health and how to use evidence to reframe your thinking for a more positive outlook. A lot of this conversation ends up circling around or is possibly coming through the lens of sport or athletics, because that's a mutual part of our past, but it's much more about mental health and helping people find themselves. Marc was a great guest and he was somebody that I connected with almost immediately, and this ended up feeling like one of the realest shows I've recorded to date for lack of a better term and I think that kind of shines through in the conversation. So, without further ado, here's my conversation with Mark Paisant. Mark, thanks so much for being here. I'm just gonna start with a softball question why is men's mental health still such an issue in this country?

It. Well, I appreciate this question, I appreciate being on here and this is a question I'd love to talk about, or I should say a topic I love to talk about, because I think there is this, or there has been for probably at least my generation, probably not the generation before me, but we're starting to see just the. I mean, it's obvious that gender roles are becoming fluid, like that is. That's not an opinion, it's just fact. And I think it's leaving a lot of people kind of confused. And when you get to a point where you know men are starting to I don't wanna say relinquish our, that seems so like dark ages and old times. I don't wanna say that. But there is a like when you have, when you have a group of people who have been the decision makers and you have a group of people who have been kind of the power players for so long, the ones that have been the stoic leaders, the ones that have basically their word goes and there's been a power shift. And now it's like wait a second, we don't have to do everything. That's good. But also it's like well, what else? What else can I do? What's my place? And I think a lot of men right now including myself when I was younger, in my younger adult years are kind of trying to figure out, like, okay, what am I allowed to do now? What are the things that I can do? That wait, I can focus on my happiness. And then there comes the whole thing about okay, well, what does it mean to be a man Like? What does it mean to be masculine Like? What do we have to define those things? So we get into this kind of fluid place that we're in this kind of changing era and a lot of men don't feel supported Like. A lot of men want to get out of the. What I say goes I have to take care of everything, I have to fix every problem. It's like no, you don't have to do that anymore. That comes with like some sort of feeling behind it. I'm not telling you how to feel, but anytime something happens like that, there's a feeling that comes from it and a lot of men have those feelings, but a lot of men don't know how to help other men out. Now it's very obvious, I think, that we live in a society where it's very common and easy for a woman to go through a breakup, have something bad happen in her life, and then it's obvious that there's gonna be support for her, especially from the women that are close to her in her life. It's almost been taught sympathy has almost been taught to women, and exclusively to women. For generations before us, men weren't taught those loving touches, those warm embraces, those empathetic listening skills, and now it's starting to affect how men talk to each other, how men feel about themselves, and what I'm trying to do is basically tell men it's okay, like, it's okay, that's it. Like. If you wanna feel bad, feel bad If you wanna tell your brother that you love him, tell him you love him. Like, if you want to reach out and say you know what, I'm not hanging out over here tonight. I'm gonna go and just spend some time with my buddy who just got passed over promotion or his kid just went off to college and he's not in a good headspace. Like that seems weird saying it out loud to a lot of people, but that's why I do what I do, yeah.

I think these conversations are really important and there's a lot of threads to pull at from that first answer that you just gave. I wanna get back to gender roles at some point but do you think, almost from cause, I don't know this do you think historically, where the gender roles were more clearly defined you say we're sort of coming out of this period it's becoming more fluid now when gender roles were more clearly defined. Was men's mental health better then, or was there just like a more clear understanding of what they were supposed to do? But there were still the same issues that were going on, which is still lack of being able to connect with a man and having that vulnerability between men. Did that always exist? But there was just less ambiguity around other parts of their lives?

That is such a good question and such a good perspective on it, because if we take something that's totally different than this, if we take the rate of autism in children right now, like the rate is going up, but it's not just because more kids are getting autism because the test has changed. Like we can notice it now in a bigger sub, the bigger group of kids Like has it been going up on its own? Listen, I'm a doctor or a social scientist, so I don't know the data. I should know it but the thing is that mental health and mental stressors and mental triggers have always been something that has happened as long as people have had cognitive thought. That's always been there. The thing about it is that the generations before us my father, his father, you know, wherever you, however long you go back in time is like a man wasn't allowed to express himself, and I know people may hear that and be like ah, that's really general to say that and you don't know all that. Like here. It is like if you go back and ask your father, your grandfather, if they're still alive, like hey, who did you talk to about your feelings? Like, what answer do you think you're gonna get? So you know, I'm listening to a book right now on kind of the history of the family dynamic in America, and it was just known that men went to work, men came home, men were the patriarch, men made the rules and did it all over again. It wasn't men went to work, felt stressed, you know, had to decompress, you know, went to, you know, the spa after work and then came home and had a good conversation with his wife, hugged his kids, like went and no, it wasn't all that. It was very rigid and strict in what a man's life was. Am I judging that? No, I'm definitely not doing that. However, what we're seeing now is that people are finally starting to talk about it. There are plenty of men who suffered in silence for so long, and women have known this. A lot of women have tried to make men open up. What's the biggest thing we hear about relations? All the time? Like he doesn't communicate with me, like there's a reason, like that, that's not just something that's popped up in a book back in the 1940s and I was like all women just say it now. No, that's a real thing and we can get into discussion on the reasons for it. Is it because society? Is it because the pressure to be a man around like we can get in all kinds of reasons about it, but the fact of the matter is that men in society haven't been able to really talk about it, and now we're starting to see what that effect has had on an entire generation of men.

Yeah, real quickly. What is that book that you're reading, If you?

have any of it? Oh, I knew you were gonna ask me. It is a here we go got it right here and it's kind of. I'll be honest with you, it might be a little dry for some people.

Is it pretty clinical.

Yeah, but the way we never were. And it is, let's see, here by Stephanie Coontz, coo, ntc, and it basically it's a good book. It kind of it's eye-opening on like people will say things like oh I miss the old days of. This is what the family was and we never did this in our families. And she kind of breaks it down to like what actually was happening and how we have very selective memories when it comes to like the family in this, in this society we live in.

Sure that sounds like a great book, one of the things I wanna kind of dig into, and it's fine just to give your personal experience on this or your personal opinion. But now that we are kind of in this very transitional period from a family dynamic, gender role position, obviously there's gonna be a lot of like collateral damage with that, while people and society and culturally we figure all of this out. But what do you see as the opportunity? Right Cause anytime there's change, there's huge opportunity to become more happy, loving, caring, empathetic. So where do you see the opportunity in this situation?

And I know people go away from topics like this, but I really love it because I'll lay it out like this Like I grew up in a household that from the outside looking in, you're like it's just a the American dream type household Father, mother, I have a twin brother and an older sister. We lived in the suburbs of Atlanta. The good thing is that my brother, myself and my sister were basically the first group of kids in our family lineage that my parents had. All kids graduate from college. So think about that Like it's one of those things that's like you look at and you're like man. That's the American dream. That's awesome. My mother didn't have a college degree. My dad very smart man, double major, loyola in Louisiana. I think math and economics like my dad's brilliant mathematical, like economical man. But my brother and I had duties. We had chores. It wasn't up to the women in the house to clean up after us. I think every person my age knows once you heard the music on Saturday mornings you're like here we go, where's the vacuum, where's the dust? Michael and I had to do that. Of course we had mowing the grass and breaking leaves and things like that. All that stuck with me. My dad was doing the same thing. My dad would cook occasionally. He would clean all the time. He would do his duty and he would coach us. Looking back, it's like other than cooking most of the meals which my mother did, it was kind of a mixed bag like who's doing what. I kind of took that with me Now. I do most of the cooking in my house. I do all the laundry, I do most of the cleaning. It's not something that I just have to do it because my wife doesn't do it. No, it's like that's part of me, that's ingrained in me. When you ask a question like that, I think gender roles being so fluid, it makes a lot of people kind of scared and weary and like where's this country going? I see it as like man. This is a chance for people to actually be themselves and be happy and not have to do things that society has taught them. Because when you think about societal norms, who creates them? We create them, society creates them. It's like, oh, it's a norm for us to do this. Wait a second, why does it have to be? Why don't we just start today and do it this way and make it a norm for the next generation. I'll be honest with you, I'm a very pragmatic thinker. It just makes my brain happy. I put everything in the little boxes like oh, let's we? Type of person. That's like it hurts my arm when I bend it this way. Don't bend it that way. But I think a lot of us, once that fear hits, of the unknown or change or progress or process changes, a lot of us are scared. And I have just never really been scared of it, like I've been a little cautious at some points. But it's like, listen, I don't think I can grow as a person if I stay in the same place or stay in the same mindset, like I'm continually trying to grow and I think as a whole that's how we should look at this. And again, just my personal opinion. You can disagree with me all you want.

So you kind of described the dynamic that you grew up in. When did did you notice at some point growing out that that wasn't the norm, maybe amongst friends or other people that were sort of in your life?

No, I never did. I mean, the first time I did was when I was married or as an adult. When it's like, no, we never did that in our house, it's like, oh, we never. It's like, really, I thought everybody did that. Like you wash the dishes before you put them in the dishwasher, it's like, yeah, doesn't everybody do that? No, we just toss them in there. I'm like, oh, and again, my dad was the type of and he still is, he's still I'm talking in past tense my dad, he's still alive. So he was the type of person that made things seem like normal, like we're going to wash these dishes until they're clean enough to put away and then we're going to put them in the dishwasher. And that's what we did every night. That's what, by the time I was of age to be over the counter, like my brother and I and my sister were doing that. Like literally, we would clean these things to the point where we could put them away, and even to the only time. I noticed it is very specific time. My sister had two girlfriends sleep over and they woke up in the morning and cleaned the breakfast dishes and one of them was like why are we cleaning these twice and I didn't register in my head. Like it didn't register in my head. What do you mean?

Oh, that's a weird question.

That's a weird question, so, but I mean, you know you grow up. I am very thankful for the household I grew up in with my father strict, yes, of course he was, because he loved us. He was my mother, like was I a mama's boy and like I kind of went to her because she was nicer to me of course. But looking back, it was all just normal. It was never like, oh, we do it this way, other people might do a different way. It wasn't that Like we never compared ourselves to others, it was just us.

So you were saying that and I think this is a very good point that there's a lot of discomfort. Many times things are moving away from what is customary or the norm, because it's unknown and people are really uncomfortable and the unknown is incredibly scary. But you said that you kind of use the idea or the motivation of growth, as you're, as like a driving factor for you. So is it just that your desire for growth outweighs, like the fear of the unknown, and is that something you've like quantified before? Or how have you been able to move yourself forward in a way that's very productive, because a lot of people know they need to do these things, but they will do every. That's like what procrastination is right. They'll do everything possible to not do the uncomfortable thing that they don't want to. So how have you found ways to actually get yourself to take action and grow in the way that you need to?

I literally was having this conversation with my wife last night because she is not a fan of change all the time either and she likes her happy little space to the side. She's introverted, like I'm an extrovert. She's introverted, so you can imagine like in the household it's like I'm blaring you know blasting music first thing in the morning to get up and she's just like what is wrong with you? Like stop doing that. But the answer to your question is like I'm here today and that's all I have to tell myself. Like everything I've been through in my life, every change that I didn't want to go through, every process that I fought against, every time I told somebody, no, this isn't a good idea, we shouldn't be doing this. Like I'm still here, like I still made it this far. And I look back and I think you know, with a high functioning brain, I triple guess, quadruple guess everything. I'm double checking everything, I'm making sure everything is taken care of. Then you get through it and you're like that was easy. Why did I do all that? And so I've taken that, I've taken all of my experiences in the past and said, if I have made it this far and I've, I haven't been the one making all the decisions. I haven't been the one saying yes, I haven't been the one that's gotten his way every time. What does that mean? And to me, that means that whatever change comes, whatever things stay the same, whatever decisions are made without me, whatever opinions are had about me, whatever time. You know that I just think this isn't going to work out. I still made it to today, so that's literally all I. I mean it might sound weird or foolish or very simple to some people, but that's literally what I would. I tell myself.

I think it is very simple, but it think it's very simple things that people do in the other direction as well, like listening. You've got a few voices in your head right. One of them is a fear voice or a scared voice, and I think a lot of times people are letting that voice sort of overcome and overpower the conversation and that's going to end up being the direction that your life takes. So, yeah, it is kind of simple, but it's. It's a very powerful mindset shift where you're basically just looking at the positive evidence that's been stacked in your favor up until this point, and the evidence which is overwhelming is that you made it to this point and you're still here, versus everything else. So it may be simple, but I think it's a very powerful mindset way to frame your mindset, if you will. When did you first become aware that mental health was a thing Like? When did you realize, oh, this is something I need to care about that?

So that's a good question because, looking back, I can remember times as a teenager where I kind of felt like I shouldn't feel this way, like I remember thinking why am I so sad, like, why am I so anxious, like things like that. But it wasn't until and I was I mean, college was my first kind of dip into therapy and talking to a college counselor. But still, even after that, you know, I went my freshman year because I just I felt out of place and I just needed somebody to talk to. I thought once I was done with those sessions, I was like fixed, like I thought, okay, done with those sessions I am, I'm good now, nothing's gonna. That's how I thought it worked.

I literally thought it worked. It's like getting your car back from the mechanic.

I literally thought it was I'm like no guys, I'm fine, and you know, graduating from college I had a really fun and productive senior year. I was working full time, made my best grades, I had a lot of good like I was just staying busy. And I think staying busy helped in the way that I just couldn't think about things Like I was so busy my senior year that I was like work, school hobby, sleep, work, school hobby. Like it was just like okay. And so once I got on my own and the weight starts piling on and I'm thinking to myself like why can't I like stop eating, like why can't I just man, I just don't like the job I have and I really don't like some of the people I hang out with, but I can't stop and it's. It wasn't really until probably my mid 20s, maybe late 20s, where mental issues, headspace, mindset, all that stuff kind of started becoming evident to me. But again I still thought it was okay, let me go get a therapist and few sessions I'm fixed again. And apparently I wasn't like alone in this, like I've told other people this and told some therapists and they're like yeah, people really think that way. People think like just because you go talk to somebody for six weeks like all this anxiety you've built up is gone, yeah, and you know it wasn't until I had one you know, my therapist that I had, for you know, over 10 years off and on where he was, I was kind of waiting for him to end the sessions. I was just waiting, okay, he wasn't gonna come back again. He wasn't gonna come back again. And one time I was just like, okay, well, this is when I'm at late 20s almost early, I think. I was like I guess we're gonna be ending these pretty soon. And he kind of just looks at me. He's like, why would you say that? I was like, well, the last guy. He just kind of ended it. And he's like, no, this is not something you just end Like. This is we're working on you, finding your triggers and building coping mechanisms and you've had a lot of this stuff since you were a child and a teenager. And like we're not just gonna help you with this in a couple of sessions. He's like this is something that you, we wanna build you tools to use for life. You wanna set your success for life. So it's gonna take some time. And I was just like no one's ever explained it to me that way? Like no one ever. And why, honestly? Why would they Like? I mean, it's just, no one ever has explained it that way and it made so much sense, right when he said it, like everything, like oh, I wasn't fixed after those sessions, like I still have things I need. This makes complete sense to me. So that was kind of the moment I'm like okay, yeah, that this makes sense and it's mental health is something that you have to. I mean, we don't just go to the gym for six months and we're totally good. We have to go back Like the same thing happens mentally.

Yeah, good, now I'm healthy for life.

Yes.

So it also may have been a case that you might not have been in the right place to hear that, cause you said like it made sense at that time.

Yeah, good point.

Like maybe you got that message in slightly different ways earlier.

Probably so right now, and you're just like nah didn't hear it.

I wanna go back to what you said about kind of your senior year, where you were describing everything that you were doing from school, work, hobby, sleep. Did you really enjoy that senior year? Because the question I'm kind of dancing around is I think it's very easy for people to have a very full life that's busy, and then that can slowly transition to just busyness, which feels the same, but it's not the same as a full life.

I'm gonna answer this like I wanna answer your question directly, cause, yes, I did enjoy my senior year and but I know what you're asking. But there was a reason. Like I got to my junior year and I was a soccer player and I played soccer at Clemson and I got to a point where I didn't love the game anymore. I love my teammates. I absolutely dislike nothing about me wanting to go in the field. I didn't care about playing, I just didn't like the sport anymore. So I ended up quitting the beginning of my senior year and so I had this weight lift and no one got really upset. Some of my teammates tried to talk me in and, coming back and playing, my dad wasn't upset, no one was upset. Everybody gave me the same answer like you do what makes you. You have one year left to school. You do what makes you happy, and so I. Maybe, if that specific event hadn't happened, I may have felt differently, but immediately I thought I had a purpose where I wanted to graduate in four years, which now, like looking back, is like why did you put yourself through all that your senior year? You could have taken one more semester if you wanted to. But I can see why you asked the question, but because that weight had been lifted and I wasn't a soccer player anymore and I got to be an actual college student. I actually did enjoy my senior year.

Yeah, no, cause that's what it sounded like. It sounded like it was a full life at that point, like very enjoyable, but busy. And then it sounds like into your 20s it transitioned to. I'm still busy, but you didn't have sort of the meaning or fulfillment I did. You're absolutely right about that, you're absolutely right. So I actually had a very similar thing. So I played soccer up until college and then I stopped after my sophomore year for a very similar reason. I just you play soccer for so long, like did you start at a really young age? I started at six years old, yes, so it's like you've done like almost a career's worth of soccer that you're like I'm kind of over it and it's just like the year round training it's a grind. I just got to a point where it was like I just I really don't enjoy this anymore. So, yeah, that was a very relatable.

It was tough, like and I was a goalkeeper and like I just remember thinking like I don't want to like put my. I had a broken foot. I had a hyper extended thumb. I had to get taped up. I had something else which I mean I had too bad ankle surgery I had. I mean it was like I don't want to put my body through this anymore, like if I really love this don't get me wrong Like I'd sacrificed another year. But I was like I just nothing about this is fun to me anymore.

Were you trying to play professionally at any point? No, no, I was.

No, I it. I'll be honest with you, like if I kept with it and, you know, did the training, but I always, you know, and to this day, I think, like I don't, I don't like that lifestyle. Like I understand people getting paid for a sport, like there's one thing there's generational wealth that a lot of sports present to people. But I'm like soccer at the time and still is for a lot of these players. Not soccer, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's, you know. I mean you didn't get paid much and you know we had a few of the guys who I played with GoPro in the MLS and they'd play nine months out of the year and they wouldn't get paid that much and it would just be a brutal schedule. And then they get like the three months you still had to train and it wasn't. It was like it was a lifestyle that when people came back and told me about it, I'm like no, absolutely no, absolutely not, I'm not doing that. It doesn't sound good at all.

Yeah, it's funny when people don't really aren't familiar with like most people think of, like the big four professional sports, or they see Lino, messi or whatever, one of the guys from my high school soccer team. He went to St John's and then got drafted by the Red Bull at the time I think they were just New York Red Bull or whatever they were at the time but his contract was for like $18,000 for the year. Like he quit to become a chef and like chef's don't ball. You know, just to give people like a frame of reference. You can be a professional athlete and be yep, yes, really struggling financially. Yep, how did your upbringing as an athlete, did that affect your relationship with mental health? Good or bad?

Ah, good or bad. Well, so I'll paint a picture for a lot of, because a lot of the stuff like, I'll be honest, a lot of stuff we went through as kids and athletes back in the day like it wouldn't fly today, and for good reason. For good reason it wouldn't fly. I was a type of kid I was like I was like an athlete that you could yell at me because I would just do what you like. I just don't wanna get yelled at anymore. Like if you yell at me, if you scream at me like Marc, do this, then I'm doing it just so, just to appease you and make you happy. I would internalize everything, everything. And once a coach was happy with me, I was on top of the world. Once they were yelling and screaming at me, it's like don't show emotion, don't show emotion, he, you know. And so I guess that's the bad part of it, because you know, growing up and I remember I played soccer in the 80s and 90s where literally coaches didn't change for their players, like that wasn't a thing back then. It's like this is the way I coach, so you're gonna have to figure it out. It's like that, looking back here, like that probably not the best way to coach a team. But you know, but that's what it was, that's how it happened and you know, the parents at the time thought it was character building. You know, when they saw a coach light up their son or daughter like, okay, they're gonna learn. Now they're gonna learn like this is. And now we've kind of seen it flip a little bit and we're kind of getting to a finally, kind of a happy medium, because that's how the pendulum goes. It always goes like really bad one way and then really bad, and then it kind of finds a happy medium and I've seen it work out literally with my old college team and with the coaches could do or can't do. But I had a coach once tell me and this is like the first year I'm starting to play goalkeeper I may have been U11 and U12. And in front of everybody on the team he's like you know, you're the worst goalkeeper in the world, but we're gonna work on that and everyone got a laugh out of it and everyone's like oh, coach, I hated that moment. I absolutely hated that moment, cause I was trying my hardest and I mean it's one of those, it's one of those coaches that you wish you could forget. But now that I coach, it's like I'm making sure none of my kids ever felt that way. That I felt, because I can't even imagine what goes to an adult's head to say that I mean it's just I've never thought of it from that perspective. Yeah, like why do you tell this kid whose voice is starting to drop, who's starting to mature? Like I lived to play sports, like I was like 12. I didn't have a girlfriend, I didn't have a phone, I had my computer, I had school and I had sports, yeah. And you know, now, as I coach, it's like will I get on a kid? Yeah, I'll get on a kid, but there's always a why behind it. There's always a why Like I'm not just gonna raise my voice to raise my voice, and I often catch myself because I really don't want to raise my voice. Like who I tell my daughter all the time who's 10, who's really in the sports. I tell plenty of other girls that are like I'm like this game means nothing. This game means absolutely nothing. Like if you can't go out and try your hardest and have fun, then don't play it. But other than that, the game means like no one's writing a story how this game's gonna change the world or how it's gonna there's gonna be like it's gonna end nuclear proliferation. You know what it's not. You're not gonna make enough money because of this game that we're all gonna retire on. Like just go out, have fun and work hard. That's it. And I've gotten a lot of good responses for that, because when you have that type of attitude, that fun and hard work go hand in hand, like you get a lot of people who want to work hard for you. So now I will say this I did have a coach, through you know, the high school years in club, who was just an amazing teacher, like an amazing teacher. He was a guy that knew the game, loved the game, loved coaching, loved coaching kids and I mean his name is Mike Cook and that's the thing. You remember the names of the coaches that were like that and he made me feel like I was the best goalkeeper in the world. Like he didn't say it, but that's how he made me feel and I learned so much exponentially just through him. So you know, it's one of those things where it's like it can be to the coaches out there. What you say and how you act in front of these kids goes a lot. We remember, we remember Jesus. 30 years since that happened and I remember.

Yeah, I'm glad you kind of got there on your own. One of my next questions is going to be if you had any coaches that were like wildly positively influential in your life and it sounds like you did, and I think anyone who plays for long enough. Hopefully you have one of those, one or two of those coaches. But yeah, you absolutely remember them. Yeah, they inspire love for the game. They teach you so much about life and purpose and yeah, there's so much positive that can come out of it. Oh yeah, did you have anything else you wanted to add? It looked like you had a thought percolating.

It's just. I mean, I looked two days ago I had my old high school JV coach, who was the assistant varsity coach, reach out to me because his son is playing high school and looking to go to college and play. And it was just like we talked, like we we'd been talking this whole time for years, like it was just so effortlessly effortless, just to get back on the phone with him and talk. And he, he wasn't. Like I said, he wasn't the varsity coach, he was the assistant, but he was the one responsible for warming me up and goal. He was the one responsible for, you know, making sure I was taken care of. And there was one particular instance where I told him about it with my senior year and you know I had come off. You know all region, all state, you know state championship I was. I was the best goalkeeper in the state of Georgia and I had a few games where I was off. I was just off. I don't know what. I don't know what to tell you. He took me to the side one practice and is like you forgot your basics. Let's just sit here and work on your basics real quick, like catching slight all the. And it wasn't that I'd forgotten them. I just needed. I needed that from him, like within 3045 minutes of that little space. Like I was good, I'm good, rest of the season I was fine. But it's because he noticed it. He took the time out of the practice. He brought me. He didn't call me out in front of my teammates or in front of the backup goal, he didn't do any of that. He brought me to the side. We did some drills that we hadn't done in probably two years and I was good. So, and his name is Tony Patino, like I mean, I you remember these guys.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's a great story. Yeah, it's just a great demonstration of like what, what a great coach really can, can do and can be. It's not just about winning games. It's like do you have the foresight to see that something's off mentally and have the skills, as a coach, to pull them out of it, and as quickly as under an hour, which is pretty amazing. So right before we started this, you had sent me an email and in the signature of your email you have announcement deli quote. I'll just read here no one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or its background or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite. How do you try to incorporate that into your life? Or, as best you can?

I think I you know from something. I mean, it's such a beautiful quote, but the fact that matters that when you really think about it, how much effort and time and just headache and whatever other words you can think of, does it take to literally hate somebody or have somebody get under your skin or not want to be around Like it's. To me it's, it's, it's such a waste of energy. And time is one thing. Like time, I know we can get really deep and talk about the concept. We're not going to do any of that, so I'm not going to get into that. I'm really into. Like the last two years I've really been focusing on my energy, like some people call it spirit, spiritualness or spirituality. I can't speak right now, some people will. You know, I know Chi is used, but I've been, I've been really focused on energy and energy out. That's a big thing. I've been doing the last probably two and a half, three years, since I've kind of started this mental health, physical health, you know, connection journey and I've learned that if I don't take any of my energy for hate or displeasure, for something that I have to, you know, actually go out and show the world that I don't like this person or hate this thing or whatever, and we're talking about a world that is very divided. I mean, it's been divided for a long time. But now it's like you flip your phone open and I don't know why I just said flip, like I don't know why I said flip phone. You take your phone, you fuck it and flip on the TV, you put the tablet up, whatever, like there's always two sides to everything, two divisive sides to everything, and of course, there's multiple sides, but the yay, nays are just so loud and obnoxious. And I'm not saying this in a way that you know, people think I'm, you know, right in the middle and I don't think there's a right and a wrong to things. Of course I think there is a right and a wrong to things. However, I've learned this, and this is going to answer your question about the quote I've learned that, regardless of what I do, regardless of what I say, what I write, who I know, who I don't know the things I've done in my past, the things I'm going to do in my future, like it's a very minimal chance that I'm going to change anyone or change their opinion or make them think differently about me by what I'm saying or writing so I could take that energy and be like you know what, that I can't stand that person, everything I've tried to do, like they're not accepting, like I know my perspective now is like I wish them the best and I've tried and I'm going to move on and I'm good to go. No harm, no, not no harm, no foul, but kind of like I still have a life to live, like, unless you're messing with either my family, my energy or my money, one of those three things which we live in a capitalist society. I'm not, you know, I might be a person who likes to think big, but at the same time I got bills to pay.

That matters.

Unless you're messing with one of those three things, I'm going to live my life. That's it. Because this is coming from a person who used to love to play devil's advocate. The person used to say we'll see it from this perspective. And no, no, no, you're wrong, and I can't believe. That used to be me and I cringe every time I think about like the person I used to be a little bit like, but it's turning me into the person I am now. But I like, and when I start saying things like that, it makes it obvious that it takes so much energy to hate somebody, takes so much energy to hate something, and I truly believe that humans are positive creatures, are loving creatures, they want to help the next person. But as you grow up, as you get into situations and you start getting a little, you know, little clicky a little. This is my clan, I got to protect my own, you know, and it's some people are saying go out and help others. Some people say, no, keep it in the, and then you start getting into situations where it's like anybody can be, anybody's mind can be molded to think they're doing the right thing. So I really feel like I don't want to. I don't want to waste my energy hating something or hating somebody. Like I don't want to do that in people. It's kind of thrown people off, to be honest with you, because especially my friends, especially my sister, who's like she'll come with me Can you believe this is happening? Or can you believe I can't believe this happened? Blah, blah, blah. And my response like I don't want to be quip about it, but it's like my God, let's get this workout in, like I don't. Is it affecting us today, like right now? Like oh, no, it is so. And she's asked me like that question. She's like why? Why don't you allow things to bother you? And I told her I was like I got kids to raise, I got a wife to take care of, I got a mortgage, I got a job. Like I don't have time to worry about things that have nothing to do with me. So yeah, I hope that that was kind of a rant, but I hope I answered your question.

No, that was great. I've got a few other follow-ups. I want to go back to something you said about divisiveness and I think there are a few things that can contribute to that. One of them that you mentioned the flip phones, obviously. So I think with all the technology now, there's just more availability to see, right, people are just louder, there's an amplification of everyone's opinion and you can just see all the sides of this and for media's perspective, divisiveness and outrage is it's great for everything, right, it's great for virality. So there's there's certainly an aspect of that that's helping drive this. Do you think there's also a point kind of going back to, kind of what we started this conversation around, which was, from, let's just say, a man's perspective or a male's perspective, sort of this transitional period that we're in slightly less clearly defined roles. So now, like these sides that are established online, it's easier to sort of anchor, like, if they don't have their own sort of identity, they can just anchor to these external identities and they'd be like okay, this is, this, is what I'll tie myself to. Do you think that's contributing to the divisiveness as well?

I mean short answer, yes, like, yes it is. I mean it definitely is. And we've gotten to a point where I'm never going to be like the old man yelling from his porch to kids to get off his lawn. I'm not going to be that. I'm not going to be that person because people are doing the same thing. Growing up, when I was growing up, about everybody has a personal computer now and I don't even want to know what's going to happen in the future, like what's going to be the thing then. But and again the conversation I was having with one of my friends, it's that not only does everyone have an opinion now, everyone has a public opinion. I was actually, as one of the girls I was coaching, I, you know, and everyone has the ability, like you could, you could. The example I gave was you could have the most just, benign post where it's like, where you're outside in the sun and you say, hey, everybody hope you have a great day, make sure you get outside in the sun today and, of course, some people come out oh great. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate that and you're going to have that one person's like oh well, you don't have sunscreen on, you should take your skin and you could respond. Actually, I do have sunscreen, that's what I'm wearing and like oh, I don't. That's not organic, that's bad for the environment, and it's like every every step you go, you're going to have someone who is a contrarian just to be a contrarian, like you're not adding anything to it. People are people, are people are people, are people. People are malleable. Like. People want some type of just purpose. They want a purpose, they want to feel heard, they want to feel seen. When you have someone who doesn't think highly of themselves, have never been taught how to properly cope with triggers, when they feel like no one sees them, no one hears them, it's only human nature that they're going to attach to something that resonates with them. And how it happens. Once I say it, everyone's going to understand it. Or I'd be like oh yeah, I know what that means. You could come home and you know, keep stubbing your toe on the counter in your kitchen and the first time you hear on the radio or on the podcast or on a news source, do you keep stubbing your toe. Well, we're the people Like. It's a very basic, you know example, but that's what happens Like and the issues that you and I may be talking about aren't really tangible or specific. It's just someone just doesn't feel like anyone is out there supporting them. You know, are you a man and you don't feel supported? And the feminist movement has got you in? Like, of course I'm just making stuff up, but you know, it's probably closer to truth than I really want it to be. But then you're like, yeah, wait, yeah, I am a man and no one does support me and people are taking away. And yeah, this, yeah, I need to. So, just like that you found something to attach to be done. Any research on it? No, but they said the right things. Now we've all been there. Yeah, it made you feel great, like finally someone sees it from my perspective and it's like that's everywhere. Now that's 24. That's not just a couple of hours a night or a couple of days away, that is everywhere, at any time of the day. And with algorithms, now, like you get it all the time. Like I have to remind myself like, why am I? Why is this? This one hour of scrolling made me feel so good, or so like energized about something, or so just gung-ho on doing. It's like, oh, it's, it's not me, it's this algorithm. Like I got to get off this, like once I feel that I'm like I feel way too, you know strong about this opinion. Right now, I'm going to put this down and go do something else.

Yeah, it's a great point about the algorithm. So I have a few different Gmail accounts, so it's great. Sometimes I'll hop on YouTube and I'll be on a different Gmail account and I'll see something totally I'd say like such good exposure, be like, oh, there's all this other stuff. It's not just the same stuff that my standard personal email is tied to, which has been, just you know, a self-fulfilling loop over and over again.

It really is.

There's all these other things on the internet which is a great reminder. I'd love to move into like some of the more tangible stuff, and not necessarily from like the clinical sense, just stuff that you've experienced and found that works, like increasing happiness or I don't know that these aren't the same, but increasing happiness, managing depression, managing anxiety, any tangible tips for people out there from a lifestyle perspective, from how to build social connections, anything that can help people in those realms.

I always prefaced these, of course, with the fact that I'm, you know, not a doctor, not a therapist. However, I'm just a guy who's gone through a lot of this stuff and there are ways that are literally you doing specific things or taking specific supplements, or not supplements, but maybe minerals, things like that that we don't get enough of that. We could sit here and say, hey, are you drinking enough water? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you getting outside? For actually, you know, like that is the baseline, like that I think everybody should know that's the baseline If you are feeling in a rut, if you are feeling down, depressed, you know all that good stuff. Like there is a mind-body connection, so it's all like. I have interviewed so many fitness professionals on the 6am run podcast and it's amazing how it all comes down to. Are they getting good sleep? Are they drinking enough water? Are they also supplementing with something with electrolytes in it? Are they getting, you know, are they eating the right macros and micros? Are they making sure that they know of any underlying issues with blood tests? I mean, it's like it's regardless if they're holistic, if they're an MD, if they're a PhD, if they're a nutritionist, if, like, it's amazing how it all comes back down to that. So that's I always tell people that's the first thing to start at. Like, go outside and walk for 15 minutes, just start there. Can you not have that sleeve of Oreos before you go to bed? Like you don't understand, like, what that's doing to your brain, like you don't you know it's coming from a guy who had two Oreos last night with his daughter because they're delicious, like don't get me wrong, but so there's that, like everybody, there's the baseline, there's things like that. However, I am a person that wants people to kind of change the perception and change the conversation on things like this, because a lot of people know what they're going to get from me, because they're going to. Okay, Marc's going to talk about fitness and staying in shape and he's going to talk about mindset and motivation and discipline and mental health. He's going to have that aspect to it because I believe in those things. But every like it's like 99% of the time when someone brings up mental health, it's like they think it's going to be like this down and depressing conversation. Oh, we have to talk. We have to talk about feelings and where we were at that time and how it made us feel and blah, blah, blah. It's like no, absolutely Like, I want to know when you're happy, I want to know when you're satisfied, I want to know when you feel joy. Let's, let's mark those things, let's put a little notch in, because we want, we want to celebrate those things. Like if the thought is just to talk about depression and anxiety and stress and work stress and stress about bills and buy, like if that is your goal, I probably can't help you. Now I'll be honest with you, like I I don't know if I want to, because it does us no good as humans if, like, all we focus on are the opportunities, like if that's the only thing you're focused on. So I think one of the easiest ways, one of the easiest ways people can help themselves, is when they actually mark down the times, the moments that they are just overly joyous, the times that they feel in a really good mood, and what happens is that they one. They start to at least this what happens with me. In my my journey, I started to realize there were certain parts of my day I was really happy, like every day every doesn't matter what I was going there were certain parts of my, my day that I was very thankful and very grateful for what I had and for the longest time I was focusing on how am I going to get out of this rut? Like I shouldn't feel this way, like everyone has it better, like, and it turned out that wasn't the case. It was just that simple shift. And the last thing I'm going to mention about this because I think there's a huge, huge implications to just changing one little thing in the things that we do it's because a lot of us there's probably a person listening right now it's like, yeah, when I get stressed, you know I go for a run, or I go to the gym and it really, you know, I haven't seen, really noticed that much of a change. Or when I get I, you know, they have their, their game plan. I see the same thing. Whenever I got over, I used to run six days a week, a lot of miles, way way too much. But like every time I would get stressed at work, every time something would happen in my relationship. Every time something. Just I was like I got to go for a run, got to go for a run, and I would go for a run with the intent of, like, clearing my head and running away from whatever I was dealing with and I would come back feeling sort of good. Then my mind would be like, oh crap, you still have to deal with this thing. Well, burn would totally be gone, like I feel my mind. But I got this run Like, and so I shifted one little thing. You know, I was like I'm going for a run to figure this out. Instead of running away from it, I ran towards it. And it's not. It's not an easy shift to make. I mean, it's a total paradigm shift. It's a total shift. But once you do it and once you figure it out, not only does it my runs got exponentially better. I ran longer, fat, like it was just, and I came back refreshed, ready to take on the world, especially this one problem that I had. And so that I've been trying to make sure people understand that. One, mental health does not have to be a somber, sad discussion. And two, nothing, in my opinion, nothing ever works out if you run away from any type of issue. Run towards it, run directly towards it. But again, that's my personality. I know it kind of rubs people the wrong way when I kind of give them like I don't give unsolicited advice. But when people are like, hey, Marc, what should I do? Like just run headfirst into it, like well, I can't do that right now, but can you? I was like, okay, I understand, that's me. I got a me right there.

You know the joke about triathletes, Like around mental health. It's like well, once you start running marathons so you can run away from your problems, and once you can't do that anymore, you run by, can swim from them.

It's pretty good.

Can you think of like a tangible example of like what running towards a problem looks like? And I'll let you think about that because I want to mention something else. Brother Brooks, he was just I think he's Professor Harvard. He just wrote a book with Oprah about happiness. He was on the Rich Roll podcast, which is really good, but something he mentioned towards the end of that show was that exercise does not increase positive affect, so it doesn't increase happiness, it helps reduce negative affect. So kind of like you were saying you're like I can exercise, but at the second I get back it's like those problems are still there, Like I'm not necessarily happier. But what it can do is sort of blunt the negative affect, some of those negative emotions that you might have. It sort of reduces them, which I thought was a very interesting point. That came out of his research, and he is a social scientist on that point.

Yeah, and it's hard for like I wouldn't even go in and be like, no, I kind of disagree, I wouldn't do that because I don't have the credentials to do that. I don't want to just be a contrarian. To be a contrarian we already know how I feel about that. But I think that's, I think it's absolutely correct, because I mean, I've never gone on a run or gone to the gym and like a problem worked itself out for me, like that never happened, but I did come back and I felt more motivated and positive, that I had what it took to solve this problem, or I could be more creative in solving the problem. To answer your question, I kind of want to go in a different perspective because there I mean there, I have examples of of, you know, running headfirst and stuff. But I kind of want to give you this example because this is the person I am. So everybody knows that feeling of going to an event, whether it's a work event, whether you're meeting new people, whatever you're in a seminar, something where you're like, hey, we're going to go into icebreakers and a break breakout group, and you're like I don't know any of these people and this sounds terrible Like introverts right now are like turning the show off, like they don't like it. So in in that situation, I understand how everyone feels, especially if no one knows each other and like everybody lives through a handle nowadays. Like no one goes out and like finds friends like the old way. Like like even nowadays, like I love how fast kids make friends. Like I just met you three minutes ago and let's go, we're best friends forever. Like can we see them tomorrow? It's like we we're at the grocery store, like no, we're not going to. We don't even know them, so, so, um. But I know how everybody feels in that situation. I understand how everyone feels awkward. Everyone feels like I don't want to be here. I literally just wanted to come and learn about this time share and now I got to do this. Please don't do time shares. That's a terrible idea. But I digress. I jump absolutely headfirst into that 100% of the time. If someone beats me to it, I feel upset 100% of the time. Hey, I'm Marc Paisant. This is what I do blah, blah, blah. And I literally directly give it to somebody. Like I start it, like I make sure I jump in and take all the awkwardness out of it and make other people feel comfortable, I will. I will jump into that sea of sharks just to make sure everyone else knows that it was only one shark and he's good now. He got Marc, so you're good to swim now. Like it's. That's just something that it's a lot to do with empathy, but at the same time, it's like nothing, nothing's going to happen. Like we have this fear that something bad is going to happen. By saying our name and having small talk, it's like no, I'm, I'm. I don't want people to feel awkward. Like, even if I feel awkward, I just jump right into it.

Interverts around the world. Thank you for taking that first step.

It just oh, it's so. It's like I see what's happening here.

All right, here I go. Yeah, just surrender to it. Yes, I kind of want to move on to like coaching training. Do you have a demographic that you skew towards? Or maybe the people that self select towards you All?

right. So this is something that I'm newer in the coaching and training and I've kind of found my niche market, niche market with with younger athletes and I think I think I like, I think I'd like this, you know, kind of person athlete that I'm starting to get because it's data driven and, and you know, again, I wish I was a social scientist to have this number. But, like, kids are quitting sports by 16, higher than any generation ever. There are many reasons for it. The biggest that kids are saying is because the pressure they feel nowadays with with youth sports. The second being kids are specializing in one sport sooner than they've ever done before. Like the two sport athlete is almost gone. Like it's it's, it's a unicorn now when we, when we see a two sport athlete my brother and I were two sports athletes. We had, I mean, half of the, actually most of our soccer team played, you know, either basketball or football or baseball or ran track or like nowadays you're a soccer player, oh, I play tennis. Like my neighbor, her, his daughter, she's an ice skater, does nothing else and it's like that is a lot of pressure on kids nowadays. So one of the things or the biggest thing I I help kids with and I say kids, teenagers, I mean I'd, I'd any, any young kid that wanted to play a sport, I'd help them. But it's like, can I teach them the skills they need? Of course, yeah, I teach them how to get better technically. Of course. You know, I used to coach, I used to do one-on-one training with basketball players and my main focus was improving shots, like literally that's. You know, I could teach you moves and I could teach you defense, all that stuff. But a lot of times these, these kids were never taught a jump shot correctly. And you see it, you see it happening in the NBA more and more, where athletes are becoming NBA players because they could always get to the hoop and now, like people are stopping you from getting to the hoop and you know your shot looks like hot trash, like it's so. Now it's kind of weird, for like you're like, oh, this person worked on his shot over the summer and you're like he just made $8 million, it wouldn't even over the sound, like why doesn't he have one already? So I could teach you all that stuff. But I really like helping a kid gain confidence. Like that is one, like that is one of the most fulfilling things in the world. And for instance I had, there was this kid I just started working with and he's he's a not a teenager yet almost a teenager in middle school and he's very raw when it comes to soccer. I mean, you can see that he has some raw talent. He's not very sure of himself. He's in that stage where, like, his legs are like three fourths of his body, like every guy knows that, like it's like where are my feet?

right now and you can tell You'll grow into those legs at some point and I think it's hilarious.

And so you know it's, it's. It's one of the workouts we're doing is literally we're finishing and a lot of people will call it score. I bet a lot of people who don't know the game of soccer will say you know score or shooting things like that. But if you're being technical, it's, it's finishing. Like the play builds up and you want people to think about it as this, finishing whether you scored or not. Like you're working on different ways to finish and you know at the beginning of them, like hey, I just want you to pass a few balls to you. I'm not telling you how to do it, I just want you to do it. And, of course, he knows what's easy. His body has the way that it likes and he has muscle memory and he's kicked the ball the same same way every time. I was like all right, I want you to open up your foot inside the foot, go to that corner. His body won't let him do it. Like, his body won't let him do it. I'm like all right. And so you started talking about intent with some of the kids. I'm like all right, so think about this. Like that part of your foot has to be on this part of your ball, this part of the ball, what does your leg have to do? Where does your other foot have to be? Like think about these things while we're training. Like don't just go out and say, oh, Marc said to do this, I'm going to do it. Like no, it's not that easy. Like be intentional. What does your knee have to do? Where does it have to go, all this stuff? So he starts to get it a little bit. We move on to laces, finishing across the goal and I'm glad you played soccer because I can have, I can have these conversations. You know exactly what I'm talking about Right footed. I'm like we're going to go far post laces. You know, toe down. I want you to just drive the ball across the keeper and into the far post. And his exact response is oh, I've never kicked the ball that way before. It's like all right, that's what cool, like I don't like great time to learn. It's time to learn. I kid you not Again. I started that time with asking him to be intentional. Think about what you have to do, think about where your knee has to be over the ball and how you have to strike through it. He struck the first ball Like it knuckled, it was perfect. And he just stood there with this smile on his face and I was like really never hit it like that before. Like it was one of like I understand, like he in his mind, he was being, but he wasn't focusing on anything but that act, like there was nothing else involved, like he was, and it wasn't the fact that he did it the right way the first time, it wasn't the fact that he struck this just amazing, it wasn't any of that things. But the look on his face said I just did that, like that's what the look on it wasn't like oh my God, how did I do that? The look on his face was I have the ability to do that and so you know it was one session, so it's not like he's going to go out and you know, be Ronaldo tomorrow, that's not going to happen. It's like now, if we do it a couple times, if he gets in a game situation and he sees that far post open. I want to make sure he has that repertoire to have the confidence to strike that ball. So you know, it used to be just Paisant training. I changed it to Paisant coaching and training because I think I want to, I think I like the coaching more. I mean training is don't get me wrong, I know trainers are coaches in their own sense, but it's like I don't want to just go to the gym for 30 minutes and have you do, you know, push, pull, hinge and squat. I don't want to do that. Like we can, like we can. If you want to pay me for that, let's do it. I've been doing it for, you know, a year now. We can definitely do that. But it's like and actually I started with a new client on Monday. Now I'm thinking about it it's like that's what they want, but it's like the coaching part of it I want to help like, build the confidence in the next generation of it doesn't have to be athlete, it doesn't have to be athlete, just the next generation of people who are the decision makers in this country.

Yeah, I think sport can be such a powerful tool for teaching but, like any sort of hobby, right, music, dance, whatever it might be there's so many different things. Obviously, you and I just have sport as that common avenue that we both explored. I want to go back to something you said, and I saw this because I trained for a while as well and I saw a lot of sport, specific youth athletes that I was working with. I'm in Scottsdale, arizona, so there's a lot of golfers, right. So it's a weird like asymmetric movement and these kids are. I mean, the time has trained them, but now they're in college A lot of them are D1 schools like they're phenomenal golfers, but you get them in there and you'd have them try to skip or you throw them a tennis ball and it looked like it was the first time they were like it looked like an alien took over their body. I'm like, have you never used this thing before? It's like not to talk bad about them, but it's like the specialization from like age five and six and the research is really clear if there are any parents out here listening who have kids that you want to be really good athletes, being a multi sport athlete up until 13, 14, 15,. I think injury reduction is significantly better. If you're a multi sport athlete and your ability to, you're just going to be a much better athlete. You have a much wider. Sports is basically just task accomplishment. You just have much more tools, many more tools at your disposal to accomplish whatever the task might be and you were just describing that in ways to finish and soccer, but it's. Whatever sport you're talking about, there's going to be a variety of the situations. Being a multi sport athlete as a kid is incredibly important, also for cognitive development too. I'm not sure I don't have the research off the top of my head for that, but there's so much benefit to having a child be a multi sport athlete and not self select or have the parents select them to be a single sport athlete so early on.

That is something people need to. But I need to go back and listen to everything you just said again, like it's so important. I tell my daughters like I don't care what sport you play, you can, don't ever. I'm never going to tell you you can't play it. I will never force you into a sport, but I would never be that parent that, like you just said, it happens. I don't think we see as much of a golf over on the East Coast, but we see it a lot with baseball over here. We see a lot with baseball Kids 14, 15 having Tommy John he's paying four or 5,000 to go to these quote unquote showcase tournaments. It's like at what point does this become more your dream than your child's dream?

I think it's a big part of it.

That's a whole nother show in itself. That's a whole nother show in itself, yeah.

I think one of the really interesting things when I first got into training I had some really good mentors. They were very lucky, but they were older and they had kids and a very common conversation amongst all of them was are you going to let your kids become professional athletes which one I thought was strange that it was just such an easy option. But I saw it where it's like. If you have the financial means and you start them early enough and you know what you're doing, you can definitely train a kid to become a professional athlete. Depends on the sport. Some are harder than others, but you can definitely do it or set them up to a point where there's a very good chance they can become a professional athlete. But the common consensus among most of them is like no chance. They're like I wouldn't let them do that because professional athletes are just assets and whatever organization you're part of will just get abused until you're no longer a financially viable asset and then they'll get a new one because there's lots of fresh ones coming through the system. But it was such a strange thing For people. Hearing this for the first time will probably be a very unusual thing for them to hear as well.

That's why I know every time the fact that the NFL still has players. Lets me know those players like love the game. Let's me know they love. Because those contracts are not guaranteed. Your body is now. They got you playing Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Thursday nights. It's like, and for a guy who's offensive lineman or defensive lineman to continually just get hit in the head consistently over and over again. Yeah, 3 million, 4 million sounds great, but you get injured for a season, second season, they can wave you, Like I have. I know those guys love the game, they love it. Whether that or there's just nothing else they can do, and I don't want to say the latter Like. I want to give them more respect than that. So I mean, it's amazing to me that people haven't been like you know what? We're just not going to do football anymore because it is a cash cow. It is a cash cow. They make so much money.

Yeah, I mean, the finance side is a little more interesting now because there are NIL deals.

Yes, which I love. Yeah, finally, it's about time. Yes.

I mean, I think the D1 schools have made enough money off the backs of college athletes for long enough. It's great that they can actually start cashing in on that as well. I do want to start wrapping up. I do have one more question. In the idea of coaching, what types of characteristics do you try to embody as a coach? Like, obviously you try to teach the sport, you teach the skills, you teach strength, but what do you try to demonstrate from like an intrinsic standpoint that hopefully the people you're working with take away after spending time with you?

Fallibility, basically I mean, I mean honest.

That's a great answer.

Because this is going to sound terrible, this is going to sound so bad, but I'm going to say it. So many people get into youth coaching, whether it's individual, for a specific sport, for a group, whatever and they feel like they're Bill Belichick or Phil Jackson and it's close. I don't want to say it's embarrassing, it's close to embarrassing. But it's like when you look at it from, like this is a personality trait, like you don't want to beat the person up because they love coaching so much, and it's like man, it's not that serious. And guess what? We're wrong all the time. We're wrong all the time For people listening or may want to comment like I'd love to just hear how many times you've heard a coach tell you sorry or that they were wrong or they made the wrong decision. We believe that saying I was wrong or being vulnerable or a moment of second guessing is showing weakness and I think it couldn't be farther from the truth. It's like. I'll give you an example, and this actually happened the last season I was coaching rec soccer. My daughter was on the team. I was a little coach kid relationship. I was hard on her than anybody else and I always had to like bring myself back I was like, oh, I can't, I don't think I should have said it that way. And the fact of the matter is she played goalkeeper and she was a striker. So first year she played, she didn't know what side of the field, she didn't know what shape the ball was Like, that's how bad. Like she was just out there just doing her best. By the third or fourth season she played goal half the year and was an absolutely amazing goalkeeper. And then she played striker half the year and scored most of the goals for the team. Like she had and this wasn't do any one-on-one sessions with me. She had basically taught herself the game through practices, things like that. However, one practice she liked to goof around and end of practice, I'm running it, the other coach isn't there and I just hear one of the girls on the ground crying, grabbing her stomach, and I see this, like, look on my daughter's face and I'm like I'm a girl, what happened? And my daughter is like, oh, the ball hit her in the stomach accidentally. And I'm like, don't do that. Like don't do that, you know better than that. Everything's an accident with you. Like what happened? Well, I just was putting the ball on a hitter. I'm like why would you putt into a group of kit? Like what is? Like? I lit into her out of practice and I was just like go sit in the car. Like you're done, you're going to sit in the car in front of her teammates. I shouldn't have done that. Like I know I shouldn't have done that. And after practice I was like I couldn't even like it, I couldn't even matter her anymore because I had just made the situation worse. Like I was not the adult in that situation. I just I saw red and I responded to my not a player on the team, because any other player would have done that. I would have been oh, are you okay? Listen, we don't do that. And you know I would have done that, but I was dad at the moment. So we got to the next practice two days later and I had some of the moms were there and I was like hey, can you go pick up some cookies real quick. They ran down and great American cookie and if he never has the freaking delicious, so come back. So after practice I said, hey, girls, I want you to bring in a quick like. Hey, everybody remembers what happened on Tuesday. You know Aliyah did this and hurt such and such and you know what? I should not have yelled at her the way I did. And because I yelled at her in front of all of you, I'm going to apologize to her in front of all of you too. So, aliyah, I apologize. I should never have done that and I'm very sorry. And because of this, I went out and got all of you girls cookies and that, I think, was one of the best things I've ever done as a coach. Not a play I drew up, not a last second, not a hey, get the court, like none of that stuff. I think that was one of the greatest things I did as a coach, because I swallowed all of my pride, all of it, and I admitted that I was wrong. To a bunch of eight year old girls, nine year old girls, like I'm an adult.

I'm an adult.

It's a tough crowd and it was, you know, it was even like awkward for them because they're like, why is this adult who is a coach like saying he was wrong? Like that doesn't happen, they don't do that. But what I've done, I want people to know, is like I've now shown them it's okay to be wrong, to apologize, it's okay to do those things had nothing to do with soccer, had nothing to do with sport. It's just. That's to answer your question about, like literally, what do I want to embody? The person I want to be, what do I? That's it. I want to be a person that can just say I'm sorry when I have to and move on, because I don't think enough of us do that.

Well, I think that's a very fitting way to wrap this up and conclude. That's also a great way to answer that question as well. So I appreciate you sharing that. Is there anything else you wanted to add before we before?

you close this down Now. I just want to say thank you for the time. I really had a great time talking to you. I appreciate what you do and if anybody is looking to talk I do say this all the time like you can find me on, I put my name in and you can all my socials pop up, especially on, you know, linkedin and IG. If you just reach out to me and just need to have a conversation, like, I respond like it's not like I'm going to charge you to have a. If you're a man who's struggling, you know like no one's listening to me, please reach out to me, like, please do it and I will have a conversation. We can start texting, we can email, whatever is easier for you. I just want to make sure you know that you're not alone.

That's a really great thing to offer. We're also going to link to your podcast. We'll link to your socials. We'll make sure everyone can get in touch with you as well Marc thank you so much for coming on. This is a great conversation. I really appreciate it. Thank you, I appreciate you, hey, everyone. That's all for today's show. I want to thank you so much for stopping by and watching, especially if you've made it all the way to this point. If you'd like to be notified when new episodes are going to be released, feel free to subscribe and make sure you hit the bell button as well. To learn more about today's guest, feel free to look in the description. You can also visit the podcast website, which is exploringhealthpodcastcom. That website will also be linked in the description. As always, likes, shares, comments, are a huge help to me and to this channel and to this show. So any of that you can do, I would really appreciate. And again, thank you so much for watching and I'll see you next time.